I drive a v6 on LP and I urge everyone to do the same,either a v6 or v4.
Even though it's a by product of gasoline!
I commend THORNY for making a stand against the petrol companies by using a lesser vehicle,and by that I mean lesser comfort(especialy in winter).
How do we as consumers of an everyday commodity combat such giants who dictate where,when and how we, as consumers live our everyday life from plastics to concrete!
Can we boycott for just one day?I think not
Should we do as THORNYROSE has done and all buy a scooter?That for most of us is intractible.
Has our governments given too much leniency towards oil companies?I think they have in this country, because of tax revenue!
Lets not forget the investors,who invest our money!
If for instance you recieved your statement and it read!
For the period ending blah, blah blah,your current interest rate is blah,blah blah.
And you found that you paid more tax than what you earned you and I would be concerned about what was going where!
So in a nutshell,we pay everyday,and I'm sure we pay too much,after all It's too much for me to break down into dollars and cents where it goes!
Well straight away freight,and that consists of pipeline,ship and road transport which all need someone to be at or maintain.
Government coffers!I'm going to break down the Aussie fuel exice that we pay(on average)as a whole litre $1:20, 62 cents in tax plus 10% gst =74 cents tax,without tax we should pay 48 cents per litre.From the 74 cents we should recieve better roads,public transport,hospital service and healthcare,schooling for our children,more police and ambulance personnel
I know this is getting a bit off topic but we get a Federal Government bailout for our roads or road!
Meanwhile the federal government boasts of a billion dollar surplus paid for by us!
White collar criminals.
Fuel exice can't beat it just have to wear it or walk!
Or make the PM walk but I'm sure he'll have a nice paycheck!

 

You have many good points, and I will comment later.. The experiment with the scooter has lasted now into the 4th month.. It is one of the best moves I have ever made.. NO it is not an everyday thing, but nearly so. Plan to buy few things often and not over load the small basket..

I saved in gasoline cost in three months to pay the total cost of the Suzuki scooter, now it is profit.. The public is becomming aware and don't seem to have a trafic problem with the slower scooters. Yes I ride at night, almost every night.. I drive my pinto when a car is a must, and I haul big loads with my van. The van has not been used in 2 months.. the pinto about once every 2 weeks.. (although I did take a 800 mile trip in it about 3 weeks ago..but with it at 40mpg it is saving ..

 

Actually in this and other debates I think I have established both my credibility and my integrety and I stand by my statements. The major international oil companies are not in competition with each other they are in "joint venture" with other to monopolize and control the world supply of oil and therefore the price of just about everything we buy. You readily admit that then contend I am wrong about something I have witnessed with my own eyes and you agree to is really confusing to me.

And BP purchasing the Valdez field and the Alaskian Pipeline for a dollar doesn't suggest collusion to you?

It's all really quite simple. US petroleum interests have been purchased and vise versa so the international companies can dodge US taxes and also complicate our envronmental protection efforts because it is much harder for the US Government to control or tax international companies. Not that they would anyway with the oilfield Chirman of the Board George Bush and the Chief exectuive officer Dick Cheney in the Whitehouse.

I've seen these cycles a half dozen times since I've been in the patch and watched as the oil companies themselves under the Rondal Regean Administeration guided what you are calling Anti-trust legislation though the congress for the sole intent of forming international congonglomerates to put the strangle hold on the world oil market.

That is exactly what we are doing in Iraq at this moment and if you listen to our president what has he come to critize about the Iraqi government we put in place. The Iraqi government's failure to pass the oil revenue shareing bill the US oil interests want passed so they can take over Iraq's oil industry.

 

Here's how far we are behind in the biofuels debate and who has already benefitted. A quick search will ruslt in a lot of information just like this.

*not_secure_link*www.grist.org/news/maindish/2006/12/06/ADM/

Big Money

Archer Daniels Midland isn't the only major multinational corporation investing in biofuels. Here's a list of the other major players.

Amelot Holdings
Aventine Renewable Energy
BP
Bunge
Cargill
Chevron
ExxonMobil
Goldman Sachs
Monsanto
Pacific Ethanol
Petrobras
Repsol YFP
Royal Dutch Shell
Virgin Group


​

 

I speak of a hybrid, and in most cases the sucessful ones are small cars or medium size.. a 5,000 pound car, minus the almost 2000 pounds of lead batterys and all connecting parts ie elec motors etc. That means that now we have a 3000 pound car driven by a 100 hp motor..
If we took a linclon and put a VW engine in it , we still have a heavy car..
Factors that affect gas milage on a car are first of all weight. then engine effecency. Air drag, Wheel, tire, and mechanical drag. Then the efficient use of the energy/heat produced by the fuel..
Indirect factors are the cost of manufacture, the heat generated in manufacture.
Many writers play up the public fear of lead, Mfg cost, and disposal cost. The truth is that we need not fear the common lead acid battery. Nor should we fear the disposal of such.. There is a growing industry of reclaiming the lead from batterys. Lead acid batterys are not very efficient per weight, not rearly as efficient as nickol cadium, lithium and other exotic batterys. Lead acid batterys do have the advantage in the memory function.. they can be discharged down to any level and then charged back to peak.
Just remember! weight is horsepower.. ask any race car or motorcycle builder..

 

Of course this is just a small listing of the leaders with names we know. Also this list is in alphibetical order.. My trip through the middle of this nation doing research on the E-85, States (Ohio, Kentuck, Michigan, Illinois, Tenn, Mo, Iowa, and MN. ) this was in October of last year.. I found the big dollars coming from exxon and BP. At that time I could not identify Goldman Sacks, now I know that they were the biggest player..
Control was powered, 1 oil companys refused to service stations that sold E-85, E-85 is not sent by pipelines, I found that many stations that had e-85 at that time only sold to A- fleet buyers, only on one day a week, (never figured that one out)
In the beginning of e-85 availability , it could be found in several convinence store pumps. One chain that I had good conection with.. (the owner grad from high school with me in Illinois) He was cut off before I could make the trip up there.. ( quick edit: in the beginning e-85 sold for .70$ per gallon, reg gas sold at 2.60$) To repeat: ethonol, is controled by, futures purchases of grain such as Corn, Beans, and several other seed crops. Oil companys have been able to control all the government grants for the development of ethonol, and simpley sat on them. Remember also that free trade with several countrys have driven up the price of most all produce from the farm..

A side bar, did you know that milk here in Ga. is now near $6.00 a gallon. But did you know that a large percentage of milk processed here in Tn and Ga comes by tank truck from Calif..
Just think !!! if the oil companys convinced the public that Gasoline had to be flash pasturized. Enough for being silly this morning..

 

A very good question, it was a bit of both. Often the threat of legislation is more powerful than legislation because the target wants to remaain 'self regulated' for obvious reasons.

 

yadayadayada... I only challenged a simple misrepresentation of the facts.

Do you stand by your claim that BP and Gulf are the same company or do you ackonwledge that was wrong.

 

My statement that BP, Gulf, Shell, ExxonMobile, Cononco Phillips and all the other are one big monopoly stands MM. My comment was TR's ability to see through the myth that the companies do not operate independently in the spirit of free marked principals and in fact collude together to control the supply of oil and gasoline.

As usual you are trying to nit pick at a non point and twist the meaning of what I was saying.

Like I said one person's "joint ventures" is another one's proof of a cooperative international oil monopoly, and I think both you and I have given ample evidence of the monopoly as opposed to the independent oil companies you suggest.

 

And let me be clear about this before it get's jumped on a misconstrued. Right now a large portion of the eastern United States still uses heating oil for heating their houses. This is a liquid fluid about the same grade as diesel fuel. Yet all over the Rocky Mountians, Oklahoma, Texas, Montanna, North and South Dakota, the Gulf of Mexico and even the eastern Atlantic Coast are huge Natural Gas depostits that go begging for a market.

The simple conversion from heating fuel to natural gas would put a dent in our dependence on foreign oil and free up refinery capacity but you sure never hear of that conversion being offered as a conservation measure. And you won't when it comes to coal which can also be replaced with natural gas.

 

I wasn't trying to twist anything. Silly me, when you said...

I thought you meant that BP is and always was Gulf Oil trying to avoid American taxes. When of course you meant something entirely different, because BP is not and never was Gulf Oil and the sale of the Gulf Oil assets was forced by the US justice department who are hardly likely to be helping them avoid taxes. My mistake.:roll: